I had a disagreement with my friend Michael the other night. I commented that his iphone was more powerful than IBM’s first mainframe computer. He said his iphone wasn’t a computer. I said it was. He asked me to take a poll of my readers. I won’t even use his argument or source to say it wasn’t or my argument to say it was. Have at it.
Update: Michael wants more responses so I’ll keep this post at the top of the page until Friday.
Update: I just heard from Michael and he still insists that an iphone is a computer and somehow I broke the rules of our bet. I guess it was because I stated that I said it was a computer and he said it wasn’t. That must have prejudiced all of you people who know about computers to agree with me rather than use your own knowledge to say an iphone is a computer. Weird logic I know, but he does know nothing about computers so he has to grasp at something. I knew he would weasel out of it. It’s amazing that someone who knows next to nothing about computers even started an argument with me since I have spent most of my adult life in the IT industry. I’ve known this man for 29 years and I never saw this side of him. Amazing! Either he misunderstood his IT guy or his IT guy is one of the dumbest IT guys in Atlanta. At this point in time his IT guy could tell him that his iphone is a computer and he wouldn’t even believe him and he was the guy he cited when he started this argument. His IT guy wasn’t even alive when I started in the field. Even his wife knows that an iphone is a computer. It must be nice to bask in one’s own ignorance and to be so stupid as to not realize it.
Update: C’mon people! More comments. Please! Won’t someone take pity on Michael and take his side? So far I’m pitching a no hitter.
Unless your friend was toting around a couple of tin cans connected by some string, I’d say you have him on this one.
Well, I remember from “B” School that a computer has an input, an output, memory, some facility for processing data, and a form of display.
I don’t own any kind of fone except a landline, but if a smart fone does those 5 things, it fits the definition of a computer as far as I’m concerned.
Hell, my microwave has a computer in it, as does my car, and even my goddam washing machine.
Don’t ask me I’m still looking for the coin slot on my cell phone so I can make a call.
LOL!!!
Computer. Can’t believe anyone would question that.
Definitely a computer.
I know my iPhone has more power than the at least one ton IBM 402 I worked with during early ’60s. I still remember the wiring technique required to have two numbers added together.
Computer.
It is a computer.
Absolutely a computer – and I started out on IBM AN/FSQ-7 that ran active air defense for NORAD (SAGE – Semi-Automatic Ground Environment)
Computer, of course.
Computer, of course. With several radios built-in to the case, and highly optimized for communications, but a computer nonetheless.
Well lets see, it has a CPU, memory, video output, touch pad, Operating System, … sure sounds like a computer to me.
well, yeah it is a computer. It runs Apps right?
says me – an IBM mainframe sysprog for 35+ years and counting.
My iPod touch has an Abacus, three converter utilities, a slide-rule, theodolite and “Battleship”: it’s a computer.
… plus WolframAlpha …
Cheers
It is a computer, all the games and other stuff and the calling people takes a processor.
It’s a computer with thousands, maybe millions, of times more powerful than the IBM 1401 (with 12k of memory) I worked on as a computer operator. Operator communication was adding up the blinking lights 8-4-2-1 to tell you what to do next.
My iPhone has a CPU and an operating system (IOS).
Its a computer.
After thirty plus years of writing software (system, compilers and apps) I think I can spot a computer – since I am currently developing apps for tablets and smart phones, I would have to say yes! Consider 1. operation system, 2. dedicated applications, 3, input and output devices, 4. Ability to connect to other devices and finally “Still has a nut behind the keyboard!”
DERP. Of course it is, even if it is an Apple product.
computer
BTW, did you see where IBM and Apple formed a partnership?
Do you even have to ask?
‘puter!
Denny, Have your friend read this article:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/iphone/iphone-faq/iphone-processor-types.html
Russ
I sent him that very same link yesterday. He still insisted it wasn’t a computer. His IT guy, who wasn’t even born when I started working on computers, told him his iphone wasn’t a computer. It was Michael’s idea to have this poll. I would have done it earlier, but I didn’t want to embarrass him.
Computer.
for Donald P———–don’t forget the “all cycles to list” jumper When I was at Wyandotte Chemicals in Wyandotte MI, now BASF, started out at 19 in 1959 chained to a 406/07 ran payroll, First shot at it when we converted from the old system I ran into the boss’s office and shouted “it balances” the old fart said “It’s suppose to”. Oh and yeah Denny, its a computer by any standard.
If it is difficult to use, locks up, shorts out, gives error messages, gets hacked, gets viruses, wastes hours of your precious time, gets you in trouble with family, friends and relatives, and quits altogether for no good reason just when you need it most — then it’s a computer.
“If it is difficult to use, locks up, shorts out, gives error messages, gets hacked, gets viruses, wastes hours of your precious time, gets you in trouble with family, friends and relatives, and quits altogether for no good reason just when you need it most — then it’s a computer.”
DITTO!!!
Even a computer challenged old school dude like me knows it is a computer……Hell, my son got me a new Droid & that item is winning the battle of intelligence with me quite handily.. Several of its predecessors paid the ultimate penalty at 200 yards thanks to my trusty 22-250 …..Droid be warned!
IBM installed a 360/30 in Korea in 1970. It had 128k memory, which was considered “adequate”. It didn’t come close to the power of the iphone. The only way you can lose is if he convinces you he can’t read a punched card on his iphone. (but maybe he can?)
I wouldn’t be surprised if someone developed an app to read IBM Punch cards with the camera. Shouldn’t be too hard.
My mom would have called it a compooter, but even she would recognize one. She used to balance her checkbook using a calculator, but after most calculations she would do it in longhand just to doublecheck. She said she didn’t trust compooters.
I’m like your mom, AGryphon. Compooter is a good name for all those contraptions. Not only I don’t trust any of them, they scare me. One day, they’ll kick all the humans out of the planet.
Computer. I’m functionally retarded when it comes to technology, and even I know that.
And it’s much more powerful than the guys in the Apollo landing crafts had.
OK…So working for Hewlett Packard (I was at Compaq before they bought us out) I have a disgust for any Apple product…So I am sure he figures his iPhone isn’t a computer since it doesn’t run Windows…
I don’t have an iPhone, but I have an Android. It is most certainly a computer. And a radio. And a GPS. I can do more on my Android, in more places, than I can do on my desktop computer, although the HID (human interface devices) aren’t as convenient. I still prefer the standard full size keyboard, mouse and big screen.
If it can send, receive, and lose your E-Mails it’s a computor. Just ask lois Lerner.
Tell your friend to stop calling his computer a phone.
Zeros and Ones, Off or On. Doesn’t matter what OS or ‘language’ it’s using, all smartphones are a handheld computer!!
I prolly shouldn’t but, I just have to ask, is this iPhone dude the same dude that not long ago also said to you that Chris Christie should be the GOP’s 2016 presidential nomination?
computer. and my iPhone communicates with our home network to print wirelessly and a few other handy things my older computers could only dream about. it’s amazing! and it is definitely a computer.
10 years ago they weren’t , now they’re smartphones with internet search capabilities! And tens of thousands of other programs available, it’s a computer.
Denny,
Like you I worked in electronics for 30+ years for Lockheed Martin/Harris Corp/GenRad ( yes I worked on IBM 360 stuff). The new phones are pretty powerful computers for sure. Don’t know why your fried would argue with YOU lol.
Denny,
It’s a computer, and much faster than the mainframe ones. Last year, it was noted that the iPad 2 equaled the 1985 cray supercomputer in performance.
It truly amazes me how fast the industry has changed. I worked on a college computer with 1024 bytes (Note: bytes) of memory, and now my watch has more memory than the large mainframe of that time. And I can remember being amazed at the microfiche storage that held 1G of data, and thought we’d never have online disks holding that much, and if it did, the array would occupy a building.
Steve
Does the iPhone user have big aureoles?
If so,
Then IBM wins
To have disagreement with your friend Michael has nothing to do with computers. Your friend Michael does not understand the concept, by not understanding, his brain translate the problem in something what hé can accept and understand. The result is obvious…
I think it is a computer.
However, if there was a emulator for the iPhone that mimic’s early mainframes. What could that mainframe do that the iPhone could not?
Other than keep a building warm.
Computer with phone and camera attached.
Find a new friend, Denny
Umm, if it isn’t a computer, why do I keep getting ‘software updates’?
Derp, cuz it IS a computer.
Computer.
Seems like an argument an Apple fanboi would use :-).
Michael – check out the term ‘cognitive dissonance’ then snap a selfie with your iPhone. If that doesn’t do it for you, please return to the Stork for reassignment.
If it has an “operating system” it is a computer.
I just keyed in “beautiful boobage” on my phone and the next thing you know, there were many pair for my viewing pleasure. Many of the best ones had “Grouchy Old Cripple” attached to the picture. No only is it a computer, it is a damned efficient one.
My vote is for the phone. The first mainframe I worked on; the code was punched onto cards and cards carried around in a box. Long programs needed a hand truck to move the boxes around.
Computer, and yes more powerful that the first IBM mainframe.
Computer
Computer, absolutely.
OK now I feel sorry for him. Is he getting more belligerent? Having trouble remembering things? Misplacing items? Trouble finding words? I believe your friend may need some medication to help with an aging brain. Be kind, his stubborness might be an organic pathology.
Yep, that iPhone is definitely a computer. Processor, flash RAM & storage. Ask your pal if he can get email on his phone or if hr can surf the ‘net. Can’t do either of these on a non-computer.
That’s one of the things I pointed out to him when this argument started. When he said it wasn’t it a computer he said, “We don’t have to argue about this”, and he pulled out his iphone, fired up his browser and searched on “is the iphone a computer”. The irony was lost on him. The link that came up said the “iphone is not like a traditional computer”. “See”, he said, “the iphone is not a computer.” Uh, that’s right. It’s not like a traditional computer. It’s not like a car or a boat or an airplane either. But it is a computer. When I tried to explain to him what it meant he was like a little kid who put his fingers in his ears and said, “Nyah! Nyah! Nyah! I can’t hear you.” This is a guy who was the captain of his debate team in high school. I didn’t realize that denying facts was a debate strategy but it must be.
High school was a long time ago, Denny. Perhaps, your friend is slipping cogs just a wee bit now?
Not sayin’, just sayin’.
I dont care what it is it is good to see Denny get over 50 replies like in the Olde days!!!!!!!!!!
Facebook really has cut into the readership of blogs.
Facebook has also cut into intelligent answers to the subject offered. People just click “Like” and off they go to visit a few hundred more “friends.” So much easier than to explain, in a few sensible lines, why you approve, or not.
Amen. Facefart is a dumbing down within a Zuckerberg chosen circle of *friends*.
I’ve never had a Facefart account and never will. Same applies to the dumbing down in 140 characters or less, Twitiot’s and the snark-fest Tweets.
It must be a computer because I can use a telephone.
One might think a person when faced with overwhelming opposition to a cherished belief would accept reality even if with regret…….however there is a class of people who with steadfast “Contrary Logic” not only believe but worship the unbelievable.
.For example leading proponents of “Contrary Logic” like Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid without a doubt would agree with Michael.
Unfortunately it is probable Michael is also a liberal democrat & thinks Obama is doing a fine job
Actually, surprisingly enough, he is a Republican who hates Obungler, but does not support the Tea Party as I do. He’s also been a McRINO fan for quite some time and wanted him to win the nomination back in 2000 when he was running against Bush 43.
That’s called the Rockefeller wing. You know, the faction of the GOP that shit in Goldwater, and Reagan’s face.
http://youtu.be/s9YA76sALk0
http://youtu.be/K-aCwD83Csk
http://youtu.be/sJSHaxRZQVA
Ahh Yes…..The Eastern moderate wing of the Republican party ….RINO`S one & all.
Does not support the Tea Party probably too radical for his taste . The sad thing is the Tea Party represents what was middle of the road for what this country stood for at its birth & for most of its history which Michael like most of America is clueless about..
This is because the Liberal Democrats along with their willing & adoring stooges the RINO`S have tilted public perception as to what the middle of the road is away from what this country was founded on.
Hates Obama ….well I think many electe Democrats also dislike him immensely but still support the liberal agenda he is pushing.
Unfortunately for Democrats & RINO`S the liberal agenda is more important then the survival of this nation , its freedoms or anything it has accomplished.
Michael might be your friend but I would watch him closely politically ….he is probably a closet liberal or a budding RINO.
Bingo! You just described what was George ‘I was brainwashed’ Romney’s Lt. Governor of Michigan – Bill Milliken. In decades prior, they (Romney, Rockefeller, Milliken, Buckley’s son Christopher) would’ve been called the Bull Moose faction from when Teddy the Progressive was pissed at the Conservatives who rejected the infiltrating Whigs.
He does believe in supporting the “most electable” Republican. Yannow, people like McRINO and Mittens. We saw how that worked out.
Yep. As I have said to those with that kind of mentality for years… folks ain’t gonna vote Democrat-lite when they can get the Real Thing for the same vote.
Ted Cruz 2016- FTW
Sigh, more responses change nothing, it is a bloody computer.
And folks wonder why I trashed (literally) all my Macs years ago…
Many times more computer than we used to put a man on the moon.
I’ve been scratchin’ my head on how to show the guy some pity. Maybe you could meet him half way and tell him that the iphone definitely is a computer but you’ll at least admit that your computer is no iphone. I dunno, I’m reachin’ here . . .
Nope. Yesterday he emailed me and said he spent half an hour searching the web and everything he read said he was right and for me to give it up. What pissed me off is that he started this argument with me at dinner at my house where he was eating my food and drinking my wine, wine that I had purchased at his store. He knows next to nothing about computers and chose to insult me by denigrating my knowledge of computers when he was a guest in my house. Very poor manners and he is supposedly a well mannered “Southern gentleman”. I may be a crude Midwestern dude, but I would never start an argument with him about his area of expertise. I respected his knowledge and his friendship and would not insult him like that. This well mannered “Southern gentleman” did not give me the same level of respect. Fuck him! He cited his IT guy who wasn’t even born when I started working on computers. I’ll be willing to bet that he misunderstood his IT guy but now he refuses to give in. A fine display of assholiness. I just hope that this doesn’t affect my friendship with his wife. She has far better manners than he does.
I had a similar situation with a very stubborn liberal friend and coworker about 20 years ago. He was an aficionado of classical music and owned a huge collection. He was also very knowledgeable about different conductors, orchestras, and performances. I respected his comprehensive expertise on the subject.
But he was also an ardent advocate of affirmative action hiring policies in the private and public sectors. I pointed out to him that if symphony orchestras hired musicians on the basis and logic of affirmative action quotas they would sound like shit. We argued about it for days and yet he still insisted that if someone wants to play first violin in an orchestra badly enough they should be allowed to, regardless of their talent or ability, much less their skin color or gender.
2+2=5, I guess . . .
At the risk of appearing as a knuckledragger from yonder North, my guess is you have no real worries about maintaining a pleasant friendship with said “Southern gentleman’s” wife, well, unless said “Southern gentleman” chooses to give up pussy – then you’re SOL.
Nope. She just emailed me that our friendship was over due to the way I treated her husband. I’ll miss her. She took real good care of me for the last 26 years. Helped me when I was in the hospital a few times. Lost my medical support. I would not be as healthy as I am if not for her. Oh well, I’ve lived long enough.
There is the lesson of what is a friend, and what is an acquaintance. I’ve learned that lesson the hard way, too. She, and I understand who *she* is, and she should hide in disgrace over her foolish pride for her ignorant husband. Their loss, not yours, Denny. They egged this on – not you.
Anyway I can help, or any for any of us blog folks can help, just reach out – we’re here for you. It’s a bigger community than you’d believe.
I still use a phone like Mr. Douglas on Green Acres.
My (recently deceased) father worked for NASA in the 50’s as a tech for the mainframe they had then. When thinking back on it, he marveled that the phone he held in his hand had more raw computing power than that room full of tubes drinking KW by the second, and was millions of times more reliable.
Dad was there at the dawn of computing, and he came to the same conclusion independently. Denny is right.
An abacus is a computer, and an iPhone is more than an abacus.
*lol* whut?
Computer.
Is your friend a liberal, or an academic?
I have some advice for him, fire his “IT” guy because he’s clearly ignorant, and quite possibly a moron.
One sure proof that it is a computer is that otherwise smart people turn into drooling morons when faced with them.
I suppose that it might depend on what your definition of what a “computer” is.
With enough booze, and a flagrant disregard for reality, I could possibly come up with a definition where an iPhone a computer.
Congrats! You are the first person to agree with Michael. It’s nice to see that he wasn’t shut out.
I was feeling generous. And I was heavily under the influence at the time.
I lost a friend over this. Cindy emailed me that she could no longer be friends with someone who treated her husband this way. I’ll miss her, but I won’t miss him. I knew he was nowhere near as smart she is. Heck. I’m nowhere as smart as she is. And I knew he was nowhere as smart as I am, but I never knew he was this incredibly stupid. His last email told me that he had spent a half hour researching this and that I was wrong and I should “let it go”. That’s when I emailed back and told him to go fuck himself. I guess he must have gone crying to Cindy whining about how I had picked on him.
Ask your friend Michael to define the word “computer”. Then you define the word computer. Compare the definitions. Unless the definitions are substantially the same, this whole exercise is like arguing with a liberal.
“Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.” ~ Robert Heinlein
I was thinking of sending that quote to Michael. He doesn’t know enough to know that he’s wrong. Ignorance can be fixed. Stupid is forever.
When I started a “computer” was a female employee sitting at a Comptometer doing arithmetic.
The machines I worked on were called “data processing machines”.
I frankly thing the word is to loosely defined to argue about. As is the term “IBM’s first mainframe computer”. Would that be the 7074s I worked on? Or the 360/30’s we bought when we couldn’t get 1401s anymore?
As a data processing machine, the iphone is certainly way advanced from anything I ever worked on including the UNIVAC (Unisys-Remington-Rand) 1100/90s I worked on near the end of my big machine days.
It could be the 7074s or even the first 360s running MFT. Or was it MVT? I remember that VSE was originally a stopgap until they could get MVS to work but it worked so well and many customers didn’t want to give it up and migrate to MVS. It was certainly easier to install. At one time I supported MVS, VM, and VSE for an IOCDS class that we taught for about a year or so. The first CPU that I trained on was the 3033. Trained at Kingston New York. Product training was a month and support training was 2.5 months. Then I trained on 3081. Product training was online and support training was three weeks in Kingston.
I also remember that on the 303x boxes storage was $1 million per Meg. My customer had installed an additional 2M of CDC storage on one of their 3031s. I took a call where the problem was in the storage address register. Since CDC installed the additional storage, they now owned the storage address register. I shot the bug down to that area and told the customer they had to call CDC and wrote them a bill. I told them if the CDC CE needed any help I’d be in the CE room but I would have to bill them for my time in helping him. This was the largest account in St. Louis that had about 26 full time IBM CEs assigned to it and had maintenance contracts on all of their equipment and I told them I was sorry I had to bill them but the rules were the rules. If there was any blowback about this, it never filtered down to my level. I think CDC actually had to pay for my time. I don’t think they ever installed any OEM storage after that. Now we have gigabytes of storage on our processors. I haven’t kept up but now that we have 64 bit addressing and I know we don’t use all of the bits yet. When I retired, we were only using 37 of the 64 bits for addressing. I remember we were at an early ship z/OS class in Poughkeepsie and one of the customers asked when told the max storage of the current processor asked what they were gonna do with the other 27 bits. You saw everyone start counting binary on their fingers to see how he got to 37. Really funny.
Good call KarlU!
com·put·er
kəmˈpyo͞otər
noun
-an electronic device for storing and processing data, typically in binary form, according to instructions given to it in a variable program.
synonyms: personal computer, PC, laptop, netbook, ultraportable, desktop, terminal; mainframe; Internet appliance; informalputer
“your new computers will be able to handle much larger files”
-a person who makes calculations, especially with a calculating machine.
well, it isn’t a person….so there’s that
Your friend (?) has a short circuit between the Desk and the Keyboard.
GIGO
Sorry, it should have read a short between the Chair and the Keyboard!
the longer i am away the worse my english is
No kind of techie training or such but my vote is COMPUTER
All in all isn’t even a simple digital watch a limited computer?
Runs a burned in program,allows user input to make changesn as to setting,display options,alarms,calendar etc?
Been an IT guy for 19 years….iPhone is a more powerful computer than most of what them that were available back then.
I called the White House and axkes yomama omama the question he said “the eyefone is like eyecandy it is a good lookin PHONE” end of argument, try and disagree the majority of the country will tell you is wrong – as usual
Denny ……I think I have solved the lack of reasoning ability for Friend Michael……He may be registered as a Republican but in reality he is a Undocumented Liberal.
Ask any border jumping Mexican you got to hide your true identity but there is always something you cannot hide.
In Michael`s case the clue was not supporting the Tea Party , the irrefutable proof was refusing to accept reality & supporting McCain.
He might as well put a Obama sticker on his car bumper……… right next to the ” A RINO FOR RODENT in 2016″ Hillary sticker.
Sad, but true. You’re a wise man, Sir. So is Denny. It has been an honor for me to meet you all online.
Amazing how the blogosphere creates a congregation of like Thinkers, and how Zucklerbergs’ Facefart where anyone can buy *likes* for $70/1,000 (http://youtu.be/oVfHeWTKjag) can’t, yes?
Shit! The “l” in Zuckerberg… had on my mind when typing – “Zuckerburglar”.
Fuck it. Just got off the boat, and am heading for a tumbler of Manhattans.
Cheers!
Typed the question into my IPhone…”Dumbass” was the answer.
CPU, memory, OS, can surf the web, download files, send/receive email, play games, make/receive calls… I can do those from my computer and my cell phone.
Sounds just like a computer to me. I’ve been in IT for over 20 years and have never heard someone say a smartphone is not a tiny computer and more powerful than then 1st 5 pc’s I ever bought. Though, it could be just an ID Ten T error on his part 😉
very small compared to IBM’s mainframe but still a computer.
What is not to undertstand? An iPhone has a cpu, memory, input & output devices (I/O) and bugs – just like any other computer.
You both are wrong. An IPhone or any other digital phone is controlled by a computer. But you are right about it being more powerful.
That’s two votes for Michael.
If it’s not a computer then what the hell does he think it is?
Wade A Minnut!Has anyone asked Siri?
Well, that didn’t work. I tried putting “Is an iPhone a computer?” Into my phone, and when I hit enter, the message said, “we’re sorry, but 4447777#266#4447446666633#2#2226666788833777111 is not a valid number. Please check the listing, and try your call again. Maybe Mikes is, but mine aint.
How in the hell could it not be a computer?
yea its a computer but i am anti apple so i say its a crappy computer